The Progressive - Latest Comments in Why I’m Not Patriotic

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Bonewoman — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:36:42 -0000

Actually, the statement that everyone was for the Iraq war at the start is a lie or misinformed opinion. A majority of Americans were against the Iraq war at the start, it took visions of mushroom clouds from Condi, Dick and old Clueless as well as strategic lies and conflation of Sadaam Hussein with Al Qaeda to make people change their minds. Lots of us did not. That does not make us cowards, it just means that we knew some things that others did not, are less inclined to follow the crowd and more inclined to do our own research rather than accepting the spoonfeeding of Rush Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity et.al. And, we have the right to speak out because it is guaranteed to us by our Bill of Rights - not military action. Furthermore, it is not an error to leave Iraq, it is a necessity. Noone wins war, everyone is a loser where violence against others takes place. And, historically, wars fought on lies end badly; and wars fought for imperialistic reasons, may be won, but they are usually pyrrhic victories. The victor ends up crushed by hubris, responsibility, endless insurgencies, and huge debt. Most people don't like other people invading their territory; killing their family members; and dictating to them what should happen in their country. We wouldn't like it in ours. They tend to want to fight to get invaders out. As for making it right, the best course of action is to leave Iraq; pay reparations into an account administered by some other organization - say the UN; and mend our militaristic ways. Militarism, nationalism and corporatism doom this nation. It is people who stand up to tyranny and wrongheaded governmental actions who have courage - not the people who go along and condone that which is wrong. And, many people who are not college educated disagreed with going to war - just as many highly educated people supported the war i.e, George Bush, Condoleeza Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, Thomas Friedman, and so on. As for American values kicking in, it would be refreshing to see that happen here in the United States. I look forward to people valuing the things that made our country different than so many others at one time - our Constitution and Bill of Rights; voting rights; and human rights. If you want to follow these people deeper in to the hole that they have dug, by all means do, but that does not mean that those of us with clearer heads need to join you.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Ken Burch — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:11:56 -0000

If you call yourself "Hayekian" you were never a PRE-1968 Democrat. Hayek hated the New Deal and would have the policies every Democratic president after FDR pursued as well.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Ken Burch — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:10:15 -0000

Most of Latin America wouldn't.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

a shaikh — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 05:27:49 -0000

Respect Your Dad at the very least

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

RS — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:59:05 -0000

We'll never know what motivated Stalin. But we do know that he publicly justified his actions by claiming to be creating an egalitarian worker's state. In other words, Stalin -- and every other Soviet leader -- was slaughtering his people in the name of equality.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

MoodyWench — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 08:50:34 -0000

Thank you Matt, for having the courage to write what I so often feel. I don't think I have donned anything remotely resembling a flag or red/white and blue since Bush was first elected. I might have had a relapse after 9-11 but when I saw all the "Power of Pride" bumper stickers I felt nauseated. I guess all the "Christians" in the religious right forgot Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

I shudder to think how far we have fallen because of "Pride" and blind flag waving and acceptance of what comes out of the mouths of fear mongering Constitution destroyers like Dubya. Our blind "patriotism" and our thinking we are the best nation on earth is going to be the death of us. How can we even pretend to be a "moral beacon" when we torture prisoners and break our own laws? Yet if one of our own is tortured we would cry foul. I guess the right wingers have also forgotten the "Golden Rule". I can't help but think that with the latest goings on to destroy the Constitution that our Founding Fathers must be thinking "WTF??!!"

So thank you Matt, for saying what so many of us think and feel.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

yankeeoppressor — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:19:08 -0000

So tell me...how many journalists have been incarcerated, murdered, or
denied their civil rights by this government for something that they have
written? I could come up with a short list of those that SHOULD HAVE BEEN
prosecuted, but the list of those tortured, incarcerated, or murdered by the
US Government is nonexistent. How does this protect the Constitution?
Perhaps you confuse exercising a right with protecting one?

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

yankeeoppressor — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:09:12 -0000

Doctor of what?

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Hx — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:23:55 -0000

I'm certain that this is one of the stupidest articles I've ever read. Using genuine concern over fascism in America to push globalism is evil sir. National sovereignty will prevail - We are Americans FIRST. Don't like it? Get out

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Capt. David B. Caudle — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:32:01 -0000

Mr. Rothschild,
I read your "Why I am not patriotic" article in my local newspaper here in Georgia. It is one of the most disgusting and vile pieces of leftist tripe that I've ever read. No, we're not born with patriotism. We're not born with anything. Neither were you born hating your own country. That too, is a learned behavior.
For arguments sake, could it be possible that your professors in journalism school, who are the leftover hippies from the 60s, were wrong when they taught you how evil and oppressive your country is? How they made the insane comparison of this great nation to that of the Pol Pots, the Hitlers and the Mussolinis? How when this great country fought and defeated these evil despots to save the literal asses of the Europeans that we really were the oppressors and that these good men were just trying to liberate the people from the oppressiveness of democracy? While you do give a little credence to nationalism when "harnessing the group" your implied comparisons of our country and national pride to these regimes are not just wrong, but moronic. I'll remind you that you are blessed to be living in this great country of ours that has those F-16s, F18s and F22s fouling natures skies so that you can write your idiotic nonsense and not be beheaded or imprisoned for doing so.

Mr. Rothschild, your inability to understand the greatness of this country is profound. Your views, while widely fostered and accepted in leftist liberal circles are gibberish and nonsense to the majority in this country. Your claim about our rights and liberties being systematically assaulted is pure nonsense for none of my liberties nor my rights have been denied to me or you for that matter. You cannot point to or cite one systemic abuse of anyones rights. You cannot point to anywhere in the history of this great country that we have used our military might for empirical gain. You cannot cite one instance where this country has oppressed, beheaded, burned or raped a people or pillaged any country on the face of this earth because of political or religious differences. I'll remind you as to what I can point to as direct evidence of a "enemy within" this country such as yourself and your comrades in arms. I can point to the fact that the ilk in your movement:
1. Stands on the floor of the congress and makes the same insane comparisons to Pol Pot etal... as you do.
2. Rushes to defend the so-called rights of the poor oppressed terrorist scum of the earth that would slit the throats of your family, even your dog if you have one, ear to ear and deep, before your very eyes, then do the same to you.
3. Tells the world that America has lost the war, the surge will not work, isn't working.
4. Tells the world that the Marines in Haditha killed those civilians in cold blood. What happen to the presumption of innocence that you leftist fight so hard for, for child rapist, murderers and the criminal element in this country? Oh, I forgot, this is the military. You hate them too.
5. Purposely lies to the American People that this war is illegal, get your facts straight Mr. Rothschild, it is not illegal. The lawfulness of this war is evidenced by the 1991 cease-fire agreement with Iraq, the 16 UN Resolutions (your favorite organization I'm sure) passed over the preceding 12 years before the war, the 17th unanimous Security Counsel Resolution 1441, the "Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of the United States Armed Forces Against Iraq" passed by the 108th Congress, of which your democrat leaders voted for because they didn't want to be seen as being weak on National Security.
6. The WMDs of which 500 tons of yellow cake uranium found in Iraq at the beginning of the war and was just recently moved HERE, Mr. Rothschild. No WMDs uh?
7. Leaks National Security secrets that aids and abets our enemies in a time of war.
8. Pays homage to Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro.
9. Invites the despot leader of Iran to a major American university to speak and participate in a freedom that he denies his own people.
10. Jettisons the responsibility under the 1st Amendment of our Constitution to side with a political party to sway, manipulate, lie and undermine this country in a time of war.
11. Uses your 1st Amendment right to foster forged National Guard documents to manipulate the outcome of a Presidential election. I could go on and on and on citing examples of how your fellow travelers in the democrat party hate this nation, hates what it stands for and is working overtime to convince those of us that believe in the greatness of our country of just how evil and tyrannical we are as a nation. It's not working Mr. Rothschild.
Here are some vast differences between me as a conservative and you as a fascist liberal. If you've made it this far then perhaps you have the courage to read the rest.

It wasn't a conservative who is vested in the defeat of their own country at a time of war.
It wasn't a conservative who voted to send our troops into battle only to betray them.
It wasn't a conservative who said,"This war is lost".
It wasn't a conservative who said, "The surge is a failure".
It wasn't a conservative who publicly tried, convicted and sentenced our brave men in the Marines of the "Haditha murders".
It wasn't a conservative who on more than one occasion, leaked national security secrets to the New York Times.
It wasn't a conservative who says that they support our troops but withholds funding and support.
It wasn't a conservative who said that "if the surge works, well then, that is going to be a problem for us".
It wasn't a conservative who said, "We just killed the Patriot Act", with a smile on his face by the way.
It wasn't a conservative who wants to give terrorist scum Constitutional rights and make them an unsigned signatory to the Geneva Convention.
It wasn't a conservative who called General Petraeus a liar and a betrayer.
It wasn't a conservative who said the President is "unstable".
It wasn't a conservative who puts the welfare of terrorist over that of their fellow countrymen.
It wasn't a conservative who said the President is a liar and a loser to high school children.
It wasn't a conservative that stood on the senate floor as the majority leader and used the power of his office in an attempt to deprive Rush Limbaugh of his first amendment rights as a private citizen.
It wasn't a conservative who wants to give birth control to eleven year olds.
It wasn't a conservative who gave a habitual child rapist probation.
It wasn't a conservative who wants to give illegal aliens amnesty and drivers licenses.
It wasn't a conservative who won't let US drill for our own oil and keeps US dependent on foreign energy sources.
It wasn't a conservative who wants to legalize gay marriage.
It wasn't a conservative who wants to abort unborn children.
It wasn't a conservative who wants to abolish christianity from the public square.
It wasn't a conservative who wants to sit down and sing kumbaya with the enemies of the USA.
It wasn't a conservative who wants to raise our taxes.
It wasn't a conservative that buys, hook, line and sinker into the latest scam by the left, Global Warming.
It wasn't a conservative who wants to bring back the Fairness Doctrine.
It wasn't a conservative who said that "for the first time in history fire melts steel".
It wasn't a conservative who thinks that the Supreme Court is not liberal enough.
It wasn't a conservative who opposes voter ID cards.
It wasn't a conservative who went over to Syria to have a pow wow with Bassar Asyad.
It wasn't a conservative who threw a pie at Ann Coulter.
It wasn't a conservative who wouldn't let Jim Gilchrist speak at Columbia University but were all to happy to have Iran's AMADJIHAD speak.
It wasn't a conservative who would not let David Horowitz speak at Georgia Tech.
It wasn't a conservative who went overseas and bashed their own country in front of the whole world.
It wasn't a conservative who went down to Venezuela to bow at the feet of Hugo Chavez.
It wasn't a conservative who sat on a Vietcong anti-aircraft gun in support of the North Vietnamese.
It wasn't a conservative who puts out anti-American propagandist films.
It wasn't a conservative who said, "don't fear the terrorist, they are mothers and fathers too".
It wasn't a conservative who wants to take away our guns.
It wasn't a conservative who wants to nationalize healthcare.
It wasn't a conservative who........
Can you refute any of this? You may think so but in reality which is where I live, you cannot. All of the aforementioned is documented. Lie to yourself if you like.

I'll leave you with this quote from Cicero in 42 B.C. Mr. Rothschild,

"A nation can survive it's fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.
For the traitor appears not as a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear".
------Marcus Tullius Cicero
Roman orator, statesman 42 B.C.

He was speaking about you Mr. Rothschild.
Capt. David B. Caudle

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Jay Bee — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 10:52:37 -0000

Amen, Matt. I'm thankful to be an American, but I'm not particulary proud of America. Our contry has such promise and potential. Hopefully someday it will be fully realized. I'm proud of several Americans, and I count you as one of them. Nice work!

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Gringo — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:23:50 -0000

(from American Thinker website)
We're Oh So... (a poem)
Russ Vaughn
We’re hip, we’re cool and oh so arty;
We’re Democrats, the smarter party.
We’re sophisticated unlike you;
We understand merci beaucoup.
We’re urbane while you’re provincial;
We’re worldly-wise, so existential.
We’re cultured, complex, so refined;
We’ve left you ignorant serfs behind.
We’re witty authors of clever puns,
While you clods cling to God and guns.
Were you not so closed and clannish,
We’d have you peons speaking Spanish.
We say all this with knowing smirks;
We’re Democrats, you red-state jerks.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Dr. Zimmerman Robert — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:40:24 -0000

"Self indulgent twaddle indeed." Yes that's right.

I do forgive you.

At the Progressive, Matt is defending the Constitution. We thank Matt for doing the heavy lifting. Bravo Matt!

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

jayrayspicer — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:03:01 -0000

No, Stalin killed in order to consolidate and retain power. Not really sure how equality or anything else enters into it.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

cfoss — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:00:35 -0000

Sorry, Dr., I tend to take things at face value.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

duckfubya — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:24:37 -0000

While I'm in total agreement with what was written, I have a slightly different perspective. I fly my American flag day and night (illuminated, as per proper flag etiquette) in a neighborhood rife with Right Wing Republicans. I'm the local Democratic precinct chair, and we typicallly have 49 Democratic votes to 350 Republican votes in this precinct. MY flag is there to signify what this country SHOULD be, not what it IS. It is there to prove that every day I am working hard to try to ACHIEVE the promise of America, not the reality. To me, the flag shows my bonafides in the struggle to realize the dream of a country I can truly be proud of again. It will take backbreaking work to overcome the spinelessness of my own Democratic representatives in Congress, along with the true enemies of freedom, the Republicans, who have now proven that they have NO ability to govern (see Katrina, Iraq, etc. ad nauseum). Any party that elects people who "hate government" and then appoints them to agencies as a self-fulfilling prophecy to run them into the ground can and MUST be thrown out of office. Then the real work begins, by re-educting elected Democrats as to whom they owe their allegiance. NOT the flag, but WE the people. Clean elections are the only possible cure for the current disease that is America's elected officials. Support Clean Election laws, and you will find that your representative no longer has to spend more time raising money for reelection, instead of doing the work he was elected to do by YOU. YOU will become his only constituent, not the lobbyists and the PACs. It is being successfully done on a statewide basis in 11 states. It MUST become Federal policy as well, or the whole ball game is OVER. As far as anyone who could be deluded into being "patriotic" about THIS administration, I'm afraid there's no hope for them. There is only hope for America, and only if YOU take an active stand on Clean Election Laws.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Shea McLeod — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 08:59:00 -0000

I love your work Matthew Rothschild, and how dare the hate mongers email you with threats, racism, and removal -- you are far too entrenched to buckle now [smile]. The world community requires transparency, authority and the freedom of the press must lead that campaign. I regard the Progressive as a credible, balanced and forward-thinking news outlet that invites the critical thinker to every party. God bless, protect and preserve you all as you watch and interpret socio-political realities that inform and inspire us not to roll over. For those of us who share histories of oppression, we too understand that hate is now an America vice, a propensity that has now loomed into a full fledged addiction, and not you, the Progressive or any truth seekers are responsible to provide treatment.

So, for the spirit of your ancestors globally, and for the struggle of all people who demand that what was said and what was meant line up don't entertain stopping, America just wouldn't be the same without your voice, for this is your gifting, and enlightenment is on your mantel -- you were born to do this! I can't wait for your next thought.

Courage,
Shea McLeod
Markham, ON

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

DCA — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 21:50:04 -0000

Thank you Matthew Rothschild for such a great article. You are courageous particularly with Bush/Cheney in charge and a Congress which has given up its checks and balance power.

Yes, we are a great country but we have a long, long way to go. As you accurately state we are well down on the list of benchmarks regarding the health and welfare of our citizens. And, I would guess that most Americans are not aware of this.

We as a country are more talk than action. Although the action we have taken over the past few years have put us and the rest of the world in jeopardy...in harms way. If we, and this administration in specific, focused more on the welfare of our fellow citizens and less on nation-building and expanding the US empire we could be considered the greatest nation. We are far from that now.

Thanks for sparking such a necessary debate in this country.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

yankeeoppressor — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:20:11 -0000

Forgive me for assuming we could have an intelligent conversation regarding
the Constitution.
Once again you make a statement and show no substance.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better
than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not
your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you.
May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were
our countrymen."- Samuel Adams
Self indulgent twaddle indeed.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

apogee — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:20:40 -0000

I have been trying to figure out here whether RS fancies himself as vaguely familiar with history, or vaguely familiar with logic.

Let me confine my remarks to the vague historian (perhaps some eager third-grader reading this may take on the vague logician).

Mr/Ms RS--do you mean that in the Soviet Union one was not imprisoned on suspicions of “lack of patriotism?” Do you mean that ordinary citizens there were not expected to spy on their neighbors and denounce them for this lack? Do you mean that the Soviet media did not make any efforts to instill flag-waving patriotism in its citizenry? Do you really mean to assert that the Soviet Union was that radically different from all those other hoodlum dictatorships of the 20th Century?

I hope that you may have a chance to check with your vague history sources, and that you will be kind enough to take the trouble to get back to us on this. In the meantime, while you’re checking, here’s a quote from another recent essay (William Blum) on the joys of patriotism.

“The Japanese pilots who bombed Pearl Harbor were being patriotic. The German people who supported Hitler and his conquests were being patriotic, fighting for the Fatherland. All the Latin American military dictators who overthrew democratically-elected governments and routinely tortured people were being patriotic -- saving their beloved country from ‘communism.’
General Augusto Pinochet of Chile: ‘I would like to be remembered as a man who served his country.’[1]
P.W. Botha, former president of apartheid South Africa: ‘I am not going to repent. I am not going to ask for favours. What I did, I did for my country.’ [2]
Pol Pot, mass murderer of Cambodia: ‘I want you to know that everything I did, I did for my country.’ [3]
Tony Blair, former British prime minister, defending his role in the murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis: “I did what I thought was right for our country.’ [4]”

http://onlinejournal.com/ar...

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

RS — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:53:59 -0000

Stalin's democide of the USSR was done in the name of equality.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Putnik — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:53:08 -0000

"Phil"

I must take issue with much of what you said in your comment.

You said, "It amazes me that people such as yourself, have no appreciation for the fact that you can write a retarded article like this and not be dragged into the street and shot for treason. The only reason you have that protection is because much better men and women than you, defended this country and your right to speak your mind, no matter how many people you offend with your nonsense."

Let's examine your premise. "...The only reason you have that protection is because much better men and women than you, defended this country and your right to speak your mind, no matter how many people you offend with your nonsense." The last time this argument could in any wise be used was during WWII. Do you truly, honestly believe that the North Koreans, the North Vietnamese, the Panamanians, the Iraqis, the Serbs, the Afghanis and the Iraqis again were somehow preparing to mount a (successful) assault on the U.S., overturn the government and threaten "the American Way of Life"? Are you mad? The single largest real danger to "The American Way of Life" emanates from Washington, D.C. More of our rights have been illegally seized and abolished through actions from various administrations in D.C. than could ever be seized by any foreign power. I quote to you the words of a true American hero, Abraham Lincoln who said, "At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

So, Phil, if you truly want to abide by the oath you took to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States", when are you and those like minded going to march on Washington and defend our Constitution (which the present resident of the White House has deemed "just a damned piece of paper")?

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Dr. Zimmerman Robert — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 09:37:48 -0000

Once against you have it backwards with this self-indulgent twaddle about your soldier.

At the Progressive, Matt is defending the Constitution. We thank Matt for doing the heavy lifting. Bravo Matt!

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

Hsunav — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:41:55 -0000

Uh...no. You're confusing the dictionary definition of communism with Stalin's democide of the USSR.

Re: Why I’m Not Patriotic

yankeeoppressor — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:04:07 -0000

I would have to disagree...a journalist can only draw attention to an issue.
Adams, Jefferson, and the other framers wrote the Constitution. They, along
with the other signers would have been hung for treason if PATRIOTS, bound
by their convictions did not pay the price with blood. No amount of eloquent
words or snappy phrases can change that fact. This like some of your other
comments are internet equivalent of farting then leaving the room.
If you can read this-thank a teacher.
If you are reading this in English, thank a SOLDIER.
cheers-